You co-founded Veshin with Hongliang Yu, who already owned a leather goods factory. How did the animal-free factory, and the partnership, come to be?

I used to work as a fashion accessories designer for a company in Canada, a job that took me across Vietnam and China, working in factories. One day, I was meeting with the factory that produced wallets for the brand, and the crazy thing is I was actually going to meet [Yu] to take all our business away from his factory to give to someone else. My intention was to meet him and say goodbye.

But he said he wanted to keep working with us because we were the first brand on his books that was thinking about sustainability and the environment. He also told me he was thinking about starting a new factory that didn't harm animals, and while I benched the conversation in relation to business endeavours, I offered to become a personal consultant to the project. A year later, the idea of creating a green factory was still really exciting and adventurous to me, and despite being promoted in my role I reached out to Yu with the idea of becoming a full-time consultant. His response: don't be my consultant, be my partner. I never envisioned becoming a factory owner in China, but in 2020 I quit my job and went into partnership with him. 

What did the process of setting up Veshin entail?

In 2020 we were in the middle of the pandemic, so we thought to ourselves there were only two ways to start the business: we shut down the current leather goods factory that Yu owned and start from scratch, or we use the resources we already have as a nest, and put the egg of Veshin within it. Because of the pandemic it was a no brainer - we had a factory, we had the labour, we had the production lines, everything was set up.

We didn't change much. Using the internal infrastructure of the business that was already there, we put in place internal measures such as getting the right factory audits and looking to be more sustainably progressive with energy and water. The ultimate goal is for Veshin to be completely independent from the leather goods factory, but the safest thing to do is to transition slowly.

Hermia [the overarching manufacturing company initially set up by Yu] is the 'mother' and Veshin and the leather goods company sit under it. The operation has grown from being 0% Veshin to about 20% Veshin in three years. The idea is that Veshin [becomes] big enough to outgrow the leather goods company, while still living in the Hermia nest. I'd say realistically by 2030, we might be completely independent of leather. 

When Veshin launched, did you have customers waiting or did you have to sell the proposition of animal-free manufacturing?

As a designer I specialised in sustainable sourcing and social compliance and I knew exactly what I wanted, meaning I knew there were brands and designers out there who were going through the same frustrations that I had working with factories. When I put together the values and the business model, very quickly people were saying, "this is a dream come true". Business initially came from smaller companies but we're starting to see interest from bigger organisations now too. We're not quite seeing the ideal revenue growth because of the global economic situation, but so far so good.

How did you establish relationships with materials suppliers?

My background is in sourcing and I deliberately wanted to go out and target the material suppliers I wanted to grow with. It was as simple as networking and continuously knocking on doors. We started off with [plastic-based] Desserto cactus leather, apple leather in Italy, and [plastic-based] Piñatex. They were the three main ones that were commercially ready, allowing us to take orders and start bringing in revenue. The difference in our approach is that we don't just want these companies to be suppliers, we want to collaborate with them too, so I encourage them to see us as a specialist in their materials who they can send clients directly to.

In the usual system, suppliers sell the fabric, the fabric goes to the factory, and they have no control over what happens next. But these next generation materials are still quite high risk. What I propose instead is for a supplier to send us the brand and the material so they can trust we will make the finished product look amazing.

You announced a partnership with Natural Fiber Welding in 2022. How did this come about?

NFW was just a dream come true. They fully understood my philosophy, and Luke [Haverhals], from a high level CEO perspective, understood the value of working with the factory. But it took quite a long time because of international property rights. NFW couldn't send material to China at that point. 

Today, they're not just a supplier, we strategise, and we've launched a white label catalogue with them to bring Mirum to as many different places in the world as possible. NFW cares about us growing because if we grow, it's because we're growing with Mirum production.

What are the benefits of manufacturing using Mirum?

NFW is the best material supplier on the planet when it comes to sustainability, and the plastic-free story is immense. We always started Veshin trying to be animal free but not plastic free. NFW is the opposite. Their focus is on being plastic free not animal free [even though they are]. For us, we don't want to just work with vegan brands, we want to work with the BMWs and the Ralph Laurens of the world, and these companies don't want to be vegan, they want to be sustainable. So what can we do? We can be progressive. NFW came along and now we've got a relationship with the best supplier on the planet and they tick all the boxes.

Is there a broader transition away from plastic-based materials on the horizon for Veshin - as you still work with 'vegan' leathers that have plastic content?

The word 'vegan' in fashion is just nonsense, but that being said, the first place anyone goes when moving away from leather is to PU and PVC. The next step has to be how can we reduce the plastic content? Some suppliers [of plastic-based vegan leathers] are five years in now and I don't see them making changes. The greenwashing we've seen from vegan leather has scarred the industry, and it is hard for me to push these materials.

Our priority right now is that while Mirum is 100% plastic free, and can degrade naturally into the ground, a finished product made with Mirum is not and cannot. The thread is synthetic, we have to use some plastic stiffeners in the product, glues and so on. We're getting pretty close, but the final products aren't 100% plastic free right now. NFW don't only produce Mirum, however, they also have Clarus and Pliant. If we can start using all these materials together in product form we can start to create 100% plastic-free products. No other factory is able to do that because no other factory is working with NFW like we are.

What are the limitations of working with next gen materials?

Right now, the limitation of Mirum is that it comes on a sheet rather than in a roll. And sheet production makes the product expensive, the utilisation a lot harder, and it produces a lot more waste. Scalability is tough. We're a luxury factory, we have luxury craftsmanship, we're not cheap.

For example, we've been in talks with Disney for two years. They're a great team, but it's a classic situation of the price just not working. We need NFW to get the cost of the material down, and we know they're working on it. They have a roadmap in place to go from sheet to roll in the next 12 months. Then we can hopefully get into Disneyland. 

Do you imagine your partnership with NFW will help Mirum scale, and vice versa?

A lot of leather factories would see a material like Mirum on a sheet, see the cost, try it once, and snub it. Others would just put Mirum straight into production, send it to market without testing, and likely end up with defected stock that the brand sends back to the factory and the factory sends back to NFW. We eliminate those headaches because we test the material internally before going into commercial production, meaning we know when it will work and when it won't.

We're also not just factory owners. I'm a designer, my partner's a handbag master. We can see a tech pack and say OK, nice design, but that's not going to work with Mirum. If a brand chooses us they're working with a factory that has all the knowledge to make that product from Mirum. And if NFW grows with Mirum, they can get the material onto a roll much quicker, which makes it more affordable for our clients, which makes us more profitable. 

What's next for Veshin?

We're working on a pilot factory in Colombia right now, and the goal is to try and move that as quickly as possible. I'd like to be commercially ready for Mirum orders by the summer. There's a couple of factories in Europe that are interested in collaborating too, so we're looking to speak with them this year. Hopefully by the end of 2024, China’s operational, Colombia is operational, and Europe is operational. Then we have the three big geographical locations that work for clients all over the world. That's the goal.

By then NFW should be on a roll too. They will hopefully get the investment they need and be able to churn out Mirum. We have the white label catalogue with them at the moment, and we want to start making that 100% plastic-free product that can go back into the ground. Our key focus, however, is to design that wallet so you can keep it for ten years. We need to be making less product and better product.